Category: Grand Power

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9mm AF1911-S15 Alpha Foxtrot Grand Power limp-wrist P11

Summary of Range Session – 9/8/2023

I went to the range tonight because I wanted to work off some steam (been busy with work and have been stressing).

I’d been thinking about my Grand Power and recently had someone reach out to me on YouTube. She said that she has the P11 and that she’d been having the exact same issue (fails to return to battery, or FRTB), but that her husband didn’t have the issues when shooting it. She hinted that it may’ve been limp wristing that caused it.

I did a bit of research and it seems that limp wristing can cause FRTBs.

I never realized that I could’ve been limp wristing the gun. It is rather slick, with no significant texturing on the grip.

I decided to begin taking it to the range to see if I can shoot it without experiencing the FRTBs. I shot 50 (well, 48) rounds of Koenig 110-gr JHP Match through it tonight and I didn’t have any failures. Note that the gun is configured a bit differently since I last shot it — I’m using a small Hogue rubber grooved slip-on grip, which helped with getting control of the handgun. I was ensuring I had a strong grip on the gun. I’ll continue to bring it to the range, shooting 50-100 rounds from it when I can, and trying to practice good grip technique so that I’m accurate as well as not limp-wristing.

I also shot 155 rounds from the Alpha Foxtrot S15 1911. The ammo of the night for that gun was Herters Target 115-gr FMJ with a splash of Fiocchi 115-gr FMJ. Whereas I didn’t have any issues last range visit, I had 8 FTEs this range visit. I shot the same ammo last visit, as well.

The issues could be (possible solutions are below, in italics):

Bad magazine – I shot with all six mags and only one mag generated failures, so I kept shooting with it to see if I was limp-wristing and causing the failures. I shot many rounds through that mag tonight and there was only one time where I got thorugh a mag without failures. I marked the mag and will put it aside. The plan is to use the other mags next range visit – if the failures stop, then I’ll know that the mag is the problem.

Bad box of ammo – I bought 200 rounds of Herters (2 x 100-round boxes). I got through one box with only two fails to extract. The other box had five FTEs. The Fiocchi had one failure – not only did it the spent case not extract, but it was still fully in the chamber, and the slide did not lock back (it was the last round of the mag). Also, I noticed that the slide would sometimes seem to be moving a bit slower than normal after a round is fired, which is usually indicative of inconsistent amounts of powder within the case. As well, some of the ammo looked funky where the case crimps onto the projectile, as if the ammo had possible QC issues. I’ll bring some good JHP with me next range visit, to see if the issues still occur with good ammo.

Limp-wristing – I won’t count this out, since the FTEs started occurring mid session of my range visit. I tend to fatigue myself as I practice (this is normal). Next range visit, I’ll test the S15 (and the other 5 mags that didn’t have issues) before shooting any other guns.

I did have fun shooting the Grand Power again. I was accurate with it. I shot it once at 10 yards but the spread was wider than when I shoot the S15 at that range, which I initially thought was odd until I realized that the S15 has far better grip texturing. I ended up sticking with shooting at 7 yards.

The S15 is accurate AF! I spent a large amount of time shooting at 10 yards and was accurate. Not only that, there were times where I was shooting pretty fast and my groups were tight as I shot further out. And that was with irons. This gun is uncanny, but it’s really because of the front checkering on the grip. It’s going to seriously spoil me. I’m already thinking about selling all my other 1911s so that I can focus on 1911s and 2011s that have front checkering. Yes, I can get checkering added to my existing 1911s, but some gunsmiths won’t touch non-US guns and all guns that get checkering will need to be repainted/refinished.

I also now have just under 500 rounds through the S15. I’m slowly accumulating the round count on this gun. I’ve just under 1600 rounds through the GP P11.

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380 Beretta Bersa Grand Power grip tape Handall Handall Jr. Hogue P11 PX4 PX4 Storm Ruger SR9C Talon Grips

Hogue Rubber Slip-on Grips for Grand Power P11

I was checking my handguns (I do this monthly to ensure there’s no rust and that they’ve a coating of oil) and came across my P11.  The Grand Power P11 is a beautiful handgun, but one of the things I hate about it is that the grip is soooo damned slippery.

I’ve often thought of buying Talon Grips or grip tape that is rubberized, just so I could use it on this handgun’s grip.  I’m not sure if Talon Grips would properly seal onto the grip, though, and grip tape can sometimes be a pain in the ass to get right.  Grip tape was my last resort.

I’ve a Hogue slip-on grip on my Beretta PX4 Compact that I installed maybe 8 months ago (I talk about it here).  It was also a pain in the ass to mount on that handgun but it’s solid and feels great in the hand.  The rubberized texture feels natural and grippy.

I decided to try a set for the P11, but I searched to see if anyone else had documented online that they’d tried Hogue slip-ons on this handgun.  I couldn’t find any data via Google that showed anyone trying this, so I didn’t know which set of slip-ons to try.

I went to Hogue’s website and looked at what they had.  Each slip-on had documentation showing which gun they’d fit.  I perused the Handall Jr. product’s documentation and saw that it would fit such guns as the Bersa Thunder .380 and the Ruger SR9C.  Both of those have rather thin/slim girthed grips, so I thought that this one would best fit my P11.  The plan was to order one and if it didn’t fit, to reorder the next size up.

The slip-on arrived today.  At first I thought that it was too small.  I had to fight to get it onto the grip, but, as with my PX4’s slip-on, I warmed it up a bit (with a hair dryer), which made the rubber a bit more pliable.  I suppose I could’ve used water to “lube” the grip to the point that the slip-on would slide onto the grip.  Regardless, it eventually fit onto the grip!

The grip feels MUCH better now.  I feel much more confident with it in my hand now.  Prior to that, it always felt like the handgun might slip from my hands.  It also looks rather nice on the handgun…looks different and not so much out of place.

I plan to take it to the range to see if it enhances shooting.

I should’ve done this a LONG time ago.

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Glock 19 Grand Power P11 SIG Sauer P320

I’d Not Been To the Range In Quite A While

I’ll admit right now that I’d not been to the range since April 2018, until this past week.  I went to the range after work (I didn’t even change out of work clothes).

I took the Grand Power P11, the P320 (which is currently in a subcompact configuration), 100 rounds of WWB FMJ and 100 rounds of Wolf FMJ (both 115-grain).  And of course, I was CCing my Glock 19.  I neglected to charge up my mini-camera, so there’s no shooting footage this time.

I ran out of rounds before my one-hour session finished.

Sig Sauer P320 Compact – 78
Grand Power P11 Mk12 – 72
Glock 19 – 50

There was one malfunction between the three firearms and 200 rounds of ammo, but I do not believe it was the firearms.  Of course it was the Grand Power that exhibited a fail to feed.  I tried to feed that round 5-6 times and it would not feed at all.  At first I thought it was a fail to return to battery but then when I saw that it wouldn’t feed no matter how I tried, I determined that the ammo was bad.  I would’ve tried to see if one of the other handguns would’ve chambered/shot it but I didn’t know if the projectile was pushed in (making the round over-pressured).  I chucked that round.  Now, the Grand Power is very tight tolerance-wise.  Some people may fault the gun for that.  For me, no.  The ammo has to be good.  Reputable SD ammo would be within tolerance.  FMJ (ie, practice ammo) should not be expected to be perfect.

Overall, it was a good range session but I promise to myself that I’ll be visiting the range every month at the LEAST, because I shot like shit compared to my last visit (I’d been regularly visiting the range back then).

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failure to return to battery Gallery of Guns Grand Power lubrication MAC P11

A Revisit – Grand Power P11

I’d not visited the range since June 2017 so I packed up a bag yesterday evening and took the Grand Power P11, just to see if the gun would fare any better with the fails to return to battery.  As well, someone on Youtube mentioned that I was riding the slide.  I’ll admit that I took personal offense to that, because I know for a fact that I’m not riding the slide on any gun, much less the P11 (if I were, I would be having issues with more than just the P11).  And, another very well known Youtuber has been having the exact same issues (that would be MAC – Military Arms Channel) with his P1.

I bought ammo at the range, 100 rounds of American Eagle 115-gr FMJ.  I’ve ammo at home but wanted to try ammo that I know most of my guns will run without issue.  I don’t think I’ve ever had any issues with American Eagle in any of my firearms.

I ensured the P11 was lubed before I left home.  It has been clean and unfired since May 2017.  The lube I used is Motul 5w20.  It’s a tad heavy, but I also used a fine coat of CLP on the typical places where the P11 needs lube.

The handgun ate all the rounds without failing to return to battery…all but one.  It failed on round 94.  I was disappointed.  100 rounds isn’t much…it couldn’t get through 100 rounds without failing.

Another Youtuber insists that I call Eagle Imports and have them look into the issue.  I may do that but I may just call Gallery of Guns (that’s where I bought it from…they’ve lifetime guarantees of their firearms).  Whichever will be the path of least resistance will be good.

The range visit made me miss carrying the P11.  It is and has always been accurate and comfortable in my hands.  I miss carrying it, but I just can’t stand the failures to return to battery.

I’ll open it up later today to see how dirty the gun is.  I’m sure I’ll see a ton of carbon (even with me using just a bit of oil) where the barrel rides in the frame…that’s the only place that can get dirty enough to cause battery issues.  It makes me wonder if I should stop putting lube in that location.

UPDATE:

 Here are pictures of the dirty areas of the gun.  There is carbon that has coated the oil and it was causing friction that is preventing the barrel from rotating properly, which is causing the failures to return to battery.  If CLP doesn’t work, or even regular 5w20 motor oil, WTF is going to be good enough to prevent this sort of thing?  Maybe something IS out of spec…

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barrel Grand Power Q100 rotating

The Striker-fired Grand Power Q100

[I used an app to try to post an article but it didn’t work out well, so I’ve resubmitted this posting]

Grand Power Q100 Pistol Goes Hammerless – In-depth VIDEO Review – Sourced from Ammoland.com & reviewed by Graham Baates.

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battery CLP failure Grand Power lubrication MAC Military Arms Channel P1

Grand Power P1 & Military Arms Channel

Military Arms Channel (MAC) has reviewed the Grand Power P1. 

The review is here:

I find it interesting that he’s experiencing the same issues that I have with my P11 — failures to return to battery.  He was pretty put-off by that, which is understandable.  What’s weird is that some people experience the issue while others do not.  I know the gun does not like being extremely dirty (it doesn’t take a lot of rounds before it’s deemed dirty, either).  The gun also likes to be wet with lube, which probably isn’t going to help with carbon…it makes for a pasty mix.

He’s also the first major reviewer I’ve ever seen that has experienced such issues.  Or maybe he’s the first that’s bold enough to report about it.  In the past, I’ve stated that I find it weird that no reviewers have ever had negative comments about this gun.  That’s the main reason I did so many videos of the gun…because I felt people were possibly hiding negative experiences of the Grand Power handgun platforms.

One thing that MAC should do is not use CLP.  That’s what I was initially using and it is not enough, as it moves around and will eventually evaporate.  Apparently grease is a no-go as well, as Dave Copping joined in offering guidance to MAC in that video’s comments section (Dave Copping works for Eagle Imports).  He needs a heavy oil — heavy oil will migrate less. I used oil (synthetic motor oil) the last time I took the P11 to the range…I still had FRTBs, although I shot 150 rounds of Wolf, which probably counteracted the motor oil.  As a reminder, Wolf generates a LOT of carbon.

It seems that the only way around the FRTBs would be to do a field strip of the weapon at the range to wipe it down enough to lessen the FRTBs so that the range session could continue.  Or use a clean-burning ammo (depending on the ammo, that could be expensive).

MAC also wants to apply the MAC reliability test to his P1 (it consists of dunking the gun in water, sand, and mud, firing a mag in between each medium).  That gun is going to fail that test.  It’s not that type of gun.  It’s a very tight gun, tolerance-wise…such guns are not typically reliable when it comes to being subjected to such tests.  I left a comment stating that the gun will probably fail the test.  I’m not sure if he’s going to submit it to the test anyways, but I seriously doubt it’ll pass.

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Beretta Bersa Grand Power P11 PX4 Storm range visit Thunder Plus

Range Visit

I went to the range today and brought the Grand Power P11, the RIA 22TCM, and of course I bought my current carry gun, the Bersa Thunder Plus (I’m carrying the PX4 less now, since it is so thick…it’s lumpier and I don’t like that it feels so large on my hip).  I couldn’t use my RIA, though, because I forgot to bring it’s magazine.

I brought 200 rounds of Wolf 115-grain FMJ for the P11.  I fired 150 rounds of it.  I bought 50 rounds of Speer Lawman 95-grain FMJ at the range for the Bersa.  I fired all of that.

I started out with the P11.  I ensured it was lubed properly (using synthetic motor oil – 5w20 Motul) beforehand.  It failed to return to battery once in that first magazine.  It did it again on the 6th magazine (12-round mags).  Then I did twice more through the last two mags.  It probably was pretty dirty with firing Wolf ammo after 138 rounds, so that’s probably why it was failing.  Wolf is REALLY dirty and covered in some type of semi-sticky coating…not exactly conducive to the inner workings of a gun with tight tolerances.

12 yards out with the P11 – not used to shooting that far out…I shot 12 rounds but 3 rounds missed the paper, and the group was not tight.
12 yards out, next 12 round mag with the P11.  The first shots were landing at the top of the target.  I had to 6 o’clock hold the sights to get the rounds to hit around the red.
Went back to 7 yards out.  Notice how the rounds are very vertically oriented.  Need to ensure the front site is lined with the rear dots, but for self defense purposes, this is superb, IMO.
7 yards with the P11…two mags worth.  Still hitting a bit up high but they’re again pretty vertical.
7 yards with the P11 – two mags…this is tight as hell, but I’d still like to work on the 1-2″ left drift of the grouping.  That’s trigger slap or me not using my support hand enough (for stabilization).  Was also shooting a bit fast.
54 rounds @ 7 yards with the P11.  Worked a bit on DA trigger pull (also did quite a bit of dry fire to try to get a feel for the DA on this gun…it’s different than the DA on the PX4, with the PX4 having the better DA trigger, IMO).  So, two mags to the head and two mags to the torso with this target, with several doube-taps using the last 10 or so rounds.
50 rounds of Speer Lawman FMJ 95-grain ammo.  I hated this ammo…it caused the Bersa’s beavertail to sting the webbing of my hand.  After one round of sting, I immediately grabbed my gloves, but shooting with gloves is difficult for me.  The rounds have a vertical pattern, though.

That Speer Lawman ammo for the .380…it was stinging my hand.  I’ll have to avoid that ammo in the future.  It seems I’m going to need to develop a listing of “to avoid” ammo for this particular handgun.

So, I’m now at a round count of 1269 for the P11 and 373 for the Bersa.  I’m not sure if I’ll ever get rid of the fails to return to battery with the P11.  I wanted to give the gun a fair shake by trying a thicker lube, but maybe using Wolf negated the usage of thicker oil (oil that’ll stay put instead of migrating).  There’s always something with the P11…too many excuses being used to explain these issues.  :/  The Bersa is still cool to shoot.  The trigger is smoothing out.  I’m still not as accurate with it as with the P11 or PX4, though…and it’s trigger isn’t all that spectacular when compared to those aforementioned handguns, too.  But it’s definitely utilitarian.  The only thing about this gun that I really hate is it’s recoil sting with certain ammo.

I’ll continue to shoot both guns, although I probably need to put more rounds through the PX4.

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ammo Beretta Grand Power N82 Tactical P11 PX4 Storm Wolf WWB

Swapped Out My EDC!

So, I went to the range yesterday and still had issues with the Grand Power.

Well, to be honest, it was the ammo…the gun didn’t like the ammo.  How do I know this?  Because the PX4 had the same issue with the exact same ammo.  Both guns exhibited the same problem and both had the same problem on the first round of ammo.

This choked the P11.  The side of the round is flat and if you look closely, you can see rifling marks.
Here’s a different view.
The PX4 choked on this one (The pictures show two totally different rounds, each coming for a different box — the boxes have the same lot number, though).
You can see the rifling marks on the gun…this is not typical of a chambered round that was extracted.

The ammo I was using was Winchester White Box 124-grain FMJ.  I’ve shot WWB from this gun many times, but this is the first time I’ve shot WWB 124-grain from it.

Now, it’s the fault of the ammo, BUT the PX4 had no problems after the first round choked it…it shot the rest without issue.  The P11 had to be cleared or had to have it’s slide smacked multiple times.

The P11 was cleaned and lubed well, so the problem isn’t because it was dirty or needed lube.  It was due to the gun being tight.  It’s a pro of the brand but in this case, it is also a con.  This is not the first time I’ve had to deal with the gun being plagued by out-of-spec ammo…it ruins a range session, especially if it’s my carry gun and I’m trying to polish my trigger skills.  If I’m spending more time clearing the gun than shooting it, that’s not fun nor does it give me confidence in the gun.  Now, I know this is practice ammo and I know that self defense ammo will not have such issues (far less likely than practice ammo, at least), but I can’t practice with SD ammo.  Well, I could, but that would NOT be cost effective.

I’m tired of dealing with the P11’s fickleness.  It is now retired from EDC duty.  I retired it early out of frustration.

I still need a good holster, though.  Right now I’m using one of my Alien Gear Cloak Tuck 3.0 holsters with a PX4 compact shell.  It works well, but I want something that I can easily take off and put back on, so I ordered one of N82 Tactical’s Professional series holsters.

I also ordered 3 more magazines.  The mags are generally expensive (but cheaper than the $50 that P11 mags cost).  Beretta sells them for $40.  After searching far and wide, I found that Ammo Depot had them for $22 each!  The next cheapest was $33 at Tombstone Tactical.

I went to the range with the owner of a business that I’m transferring over to.  I brought my own ammo but he insisted that we use his…he brought a small ammo can of Tula ammo.  I shot about five mags of that from my gun.  It didn’t choke at all (and the P11 didn’t choke on it either when I shot Tula from it awhile back).  I was impressed with that ammo, so when I got home, I ordered 1000 rounds of Wolf from Ammo Depot.  The link shows a case of 500.  I ordered two of them.

I also traded guns with my new boss (he brought a Springfield XDM, the 4″ model).  He shot well enough with my gun but he didn’t shoot it like he did his XDM.  He said he loved the heft of the Storm.  Now, I loved his gun.  I haven’t shot striker-fired in awhile (I’ve several of them).  I thought I would have issues with the trigger.  Nope.  My grouping was tight.  It was just as tight as when I shoot my DA/SA guns.  I might have to look into that gun.  The trigger was better than what’s in my XD Mod 2.

Oh, and I also got a notice that a store now has a medium P320 subcompact grip module in stock, so I ordered that, especially since those are difficult to come by.

Lastly, I ordered stealth levers for the PX4 Storm.  I ordered both the stealth safety/decocker levers and the slide catch levers.  Those should arrive soon (it’s coming from a shop in Italy…I ordered from them since Beretta USA didn’t have those parts in stock).  Once it arrives, I’ll convert to the G-type.

So, this next few weeks will be fun.  I’ve more info to share about a recent range visit, but I’ll do that in a different blog entry (it involves the Bersa Thunder).

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9mm Beretta compact decocker Grand Power holster N82 Tactical P11 PX4 Storm

Beretta PX4 Storm Compact 9mm

It arrived yesterday.
I do have a tabletop video here:

I took it and the Grand Power P11 to the range this evening.  All I can say is, wow…

Pluses for the gun:

  1. It shoots almost as well as the P11.
  2. DA trigger is better.
  3. Shot 105 round of Magtech 115-gr FMJ and Browing BPT 147-grain ammo with only one round having an issue (light strike).  It loves 147-grain.
  4. It’s sights are easier to work with than the P11’s.

Minuses for the gun:

  1. Backstraps are extremely difficult to work with…well, not the backstraps themselves but the backstrap retention mechanism.  I struggled with it when swapping backstraps.
  2. Large backstrap is slightly warped (out of the box).
  3. The red paint that’s on the extractor (acting like a loaded chamber indicator) looks to have come off.
  4. Plastic guide rod.

How does the PX4 compare to the P11?

  1. The gun is only slightly larger than the P11.
  2. The P11’s mag holds 12 rounds.  The PX4’s mag holds 15.  This isn’t a huge deal, though…the P11 is sold as a sub-compact.
  3. The takedown of the PX4 is easy.  The takedown of the P11, while not exactly orthodox, is easy enough once you’ve done it a few times.
  4. The P11 is extremely finnicky about ammo.  The PX4 doesn’t appear to be as finnicky.
  5. The P11 needs to be run wet.  I’m assuming the PX4 needs to be run wet as well…they both have rotating barrels.
  6. The P11 won’t tolerate being dirty (lots of carbon will accumulate where the barrel rotates on the frame).  I believe it is more of a competition gun that just so happens to carry well.  The PX4 doesn’t appear to be as fussy when it comes to being dirty.
  7. The PX4’s controls are not conducive to carry duty, in my opinion…both the safety/decocker levers and the slide catch levers are too big and stick out well beyond the sides of the handgun.  Luckily, there are OEM “stealth” levers that make the gun feel a tad bit slimmer (and less “snaggy”).
  8. While the PX4’s sights are better than the P11’s the P11’s sights are purposely small.  This means that while they’re more difficult to use, they’re more accurate when used properly.  Still, I wouldn’t mind getting some night sights on the PX4.
Once I get “stealth” levers for the gun, I’ll begin to start carrying it around the house.  I plan to get the N82 Tactical Professional holster to use with the PX4.
The particular gun is the F-type.  I plan to convert it to the G-type.  I will never use the safety and I’m used to decock-only guns (my P11 didn’t come with a decocker and I manually decock it…it comes with a safety but I never use it because it’s always in DA mode).
So, 105 rounds were shot through the gun tonight.  Here’s the targets (shot from 7 yards with two types of ammo in two different weights and with two different noses).
These are the first 15 shots out of the gun.  The one in the red is the first shot (DA).  This is tighter than what I’m used to shooting from a new gun.  The shots are more vertically-aligned than that I’ve shot with my other new guns.
I started from left top to right top, left bottom to right bottom, then focused on the center target.  The first two targets’ DA shots were very close to the red.  The lower left, not so much.  The lower right group was extremely tight (there are 3 holes).  the center shot was a bit wide.
All of these shots were DA mode.  I’d shoot, then decock back to DA mode, then shoot, then decock, and so on.  This is 15 rounds.  All but 3 are in the red.  Two of those are close.  One is a flyer.
The first grouping of 15 is at the red.  The second grouping is at the head.  At first, I was slowly shooting the red.  At the head, I tried some double-taps (slow double-taps).  Again, I’m vertically aligned but spread out…IMO, not bad for double-taps.  Also, note that the second group would all be in the blue if I were aiming for the body.
Similar to the target above this one, I shot two different magazines, one at the body and one at the head.  I also did double-taps.  The first shots of the magazines were DA shots and each landed center mass.  The first grouping is vertically aligned.  The second group is spread out…not sure if this was due to the ammo (was using the 147-grain BPT target ammo).
This is the P11’s target.  These were rushed (45 rounds, combination of the BPT ammo and the Magtech).  I thought I’d be able to eat out the red from the target…nope.  But that’s probably 35 shots that are very much center mass.  I was shooting relatively fast and some are double-taps.  This gun rewards the wielder when basic fundamentals are applied but punishes the wielder if those fundamentals aren’t applied.  I’ve mixed results here…while the group is tight, I wanted them tighter.  Because I rushed, the gun punished me.  Remember what I said earlier about those small sights?  It applies to my aiming and shooting at this target.

All in all, this was a fun outing.  I plan to take the gun out again tomorrow and maybe spend more than an hour with both of them this time.  I may even take the Sig Pro to muddy up the comparison (since it is also a DA/SA polymer gun that I think I may carry).

Stay tuned!

UPDATE:  I got impatient in waiting for Beretta to stock up.  I did some research and found that there’s a store in Italy that sells both the stealth slide catch and stealth safety.  The site is here.  The part is here.  I know I have the right part because I compared the part numbers between it and Beretta’s USA site…they are the same (part no. E00348).  It costs 54,92 EU and 18 EU for shipping, for a total of 72,92 EU.  It’s a few dollars less than if I ordered from Beretta USA, but as far as I know, this site has them in stock.

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base plates Beretta Bersa compact Grand Power N82 Tactical P11 Plus PX4 Storm Sig SP2022 Thunder

Beretta On the Way!

This was the most agonizing decision I’ve made in quite awhile.

My birthday is approaching and I wanted to buy something nice but not too expensive.  I’d considered a Sig 1911 as my next nice gun, but my wife isn’t going to sign off on a $800 purchase…maybe on my 50th birthday next year.

My choices were the Grand Power P1 or the Beretta PX4 Storm Compact.

I chose the Storm and bought it through Whittaker Guns for $429.

Why was this a difficult decision?  I’d need to talk about the Grand Power and why I was considering it (as well as the thing that I don’t like about the company).

The pros:

  • As you well know, I currently conceal-carry a Grand Power P11 Mk12.  This particular gun did not come with a decocker.  New guns from Grand Power come with decockers and that includes the P1.
  • I currently use a P1 kydex holster when I carry my P11, so if I bought a P1, I’d already have a holster.
  • I currently use three P1 15-round mags with my P11 when I visit the range.  If I bought a P1, which includes two magazines, I’d have five mags for this gun.

I basically already have all the gear to immediately start carrying a P1.

The con:

Grand Power stated in their forums that they will not sell the decocker parts to owners because they might be held liable if an owner did not install the part correctly and had an accidental (not negligent if there was an issue with the gun’s internals) discharge where someone was injured or killed.

Why do I have a problem with that?  I’ll list the reasons:

  • They sell 99% of the internals for all their guns on the Eagle Imports web site.  Most of those parts could cause an accidental discharge if installed incorrectly, and those have nothing to do with the safety/decocker.  Yet they’ve no problem selling those parts and letting owners install them on their own.
  • Their competition sells such parts and let owners install those parts.
  • The mentality that they’re going to save us from ourselves is very much a liberal thought.  This is also what drives such “technology” as loaded chamber indicators and magazine disconnects and both of those are training band-aids.
  • I don’t believe in any firearm being black-box-like (ie, don’t allow consumers to open the product).  If they’re selling internal parts, how else do you get them into the firearm?
  • In lieu of them providing you the decocker parts, they suggest you spend $500+ to get a new GP pistol that would already have a decocker.  Nope.  Not going to happen.

Some resources:

I was a stout advocate of the P11 and it’s manufacturer up until this point.  In fact, a large part of my Youtube content relates to the P11 and my experiences with it.  I think it’s time to move on.

The depressing part of this is that I’ve spend a large amount of my time and training with the P11, so I’ll have to get familiar with another one of my handguns to replace my P11 as my EDC gun.  An option is to continue to carry it but I just can’t swallow Grand Power’s attitude that they’ll allow us to replace any part but a safety/decocker (hell, they sell replacement safeties on their parts site!).

Currently, my options to replace the P11, if I want to stay with DA/SA, is with my Sig SP2022 or this new Beretta that will be shipped to me sometime this week.  I’m more ready to carry the SP2022 than I am the PX4 at this point in time.  I’m just waiting for some replacement mag base plates and a SP2022 shell form my Alien Gear holster.  I have 4 mags for the SP2022.  I have not a damned thing for the Storm, although I can easily get a N82 Tactical holster from a local gun shop (those are nice).

I can also carry the Bersa Thunder Plus that I have, but I HATE it’s decocker!  With a passion.  I can carry that with the safety off, if need be, and it’s a smaller gun to carry.  Although it’s a .380, it is double-stack and holds 15+1.  I have four mags for it and just got an N82 Tactical IWB holster for it.  I just need to test some carry ammo and begin practicing with it.

Either way, I’ll be testing the carrying of the SP2022 and PX4 Storm.

Before I carry the Storm, though, I’m looking to replace the safeties with the stealth versions.  As well, I’ll convert it to decocker-only.