I wanted a place to discuss my handguns and firearms in general. Everyone seemingly has lots to say about guns, so I promise you this won't be a rant blog.
I’ve been to the range twice with the Tisas Carry DS9.
I’ll share some information about the first range visit. I also suspected some of the things we discussed in my last post would be apparent during the first range visit.
The trigger had issues. The gun initially had a thick walled trigger. While the trigger itself wasn’t heavy, it wasn’t light either, so that’s a wash. The trigger wall was stiff, but I shot maybe 130 rounds from the gun, so the wall softened a bit. As well, the trigger is now lighter by 1 lb.
Between the trigger’s issues and the sights, I was having issues hitting where I aimed. I shot low (90 degrees low) with every shot — not low left, but directly low. I’m not sure how to use the U-notch sights, but I’m thinking they’re off by a bit, at least.
The gun didn’t hiccup at all during the first range visit. I shot a mix of ammo, some being HP, some being SD HP, and some being FMJ. The gun is flat-shooting, too.
When I got home from the first range visit, I sat while watching TV and kept racking the gun and pulling the trigger to get that thick wall to wear-in as quickly as possible.
When I went to the range next (two days later), I shot 187 rounds. Quite a bit of ammo was shot, some HP, some SD ammo, and a lot of range ammo. I had one fail to feed one one HP (I think it was Winchester range JHP). I put it back in the magazine and it feed and shot successfully.
The gun also shot a lot better, probably due to the trigger breaking in. Also, I man-handled the gun, as the first range visit, I was sloppy with gun control (recoil management and probably trigger control). My grouping were MUCH better this range visit.
I now have 317 rounds through the gun. The gun has yet to be cleaned, which says a lot, because I’ve looked in the gun and it’s pretty filthy. The rails were overly lubricated, which may have helped. I may clean it tomorrow, as I’m not intentionally trying to induce filth-related failures.
I also published a video. I’ll be producing a longer duration video soon. The short duration one below lacks some information (I had to make it fit into a 15 minute timeframe).
It is almost 1 o’clock AM and I was viewing availability of the new Tisas double stack 1911s. I was watching to see if I could find low priced variants, and also was waiting to see reviews of them – there are not all that many, currently. I did not intend to purchase until I noticed that the prices were creeping upward. As well, most places that had them earily in the week had sold out. I decided to buy now.
I bought a black Carry model. I’d been studying the Duty variant but none of those have been available…I can get one of those later, if need be. I was also looking at the MAC DS varaint, but didn’t feel like spending $900 on a 1911 (even though that price is below MSRP).
Note that the Tisas will be MIM-less (all but the recoil spring plug). Also, the gun comes with 2 mags. As well, the gun is optics-ready and the cover plate does not have the rear sight attached (which is great).
I’m excited about this gun, as it will be my second legit 2011. I saw some Prodigys that were marked way down from MSRP, but those were still $1100. I also looked at Apollo 11. This gun also undercuts the LFA Apollo 11 by a fair margin ($300) and comes with an extra mag, as well as having no MIM.
I’m happy with my single stacked Tisas and know they’re reliable, so I decided to give their 2011 a try.
This time, I bought from TheGunDock.com, mainly due to their lower pricing.
As with every gun purchase, I’ll document my journey with this gun.
UPDATE (2/10/2024): I waited two days for the gun to ship, but my FFL hasn’t yet sent it’s FFL information to the place I purchased the gun. They sent it to me by mistake. The gun store requires the FFL to send the info, not the person buying the gun. Until my FFL can follow the process, shipping won’t occur. I asked them to resend the info again, but it was late in the afternoon and I don’t think they saw my email. I may get the gun by the end of next week, IF my FFL clears up their mistake either tomorrow or Monday.
So, I was checking Reddit today and saw a post that Tisas had listed a double-stacked 1911 on their website product list. Within an hour, there were like 5-6 other posts (in the r/1911 subreddit).
I decided to check the product page and was shocked. I thought they’d produced a Para-patterned 1911, but they actually produced THREE (3) 2011-patterned 1911s. They producted a 5″ variant, a 4.25″ variant, and a 5″ variant of their Night Stalker SF.
Not only that, but typical recent budget 2011s offer optics cuts that remove the rear sights. The Tisas variants will allow the rear sights to stay in place when using an optic. They’re also using 1/3rd co-witness of the rear sight through the mounted optic.
What’s the difference between Para- and 2011-patterned handguns? Para-patterned guns have the grips a permanent part of the frame. The frame and grip are one piece. 2011-patterened handguns have modular polymer grips that are separate from the frame. Many folks confuse Para-patterned double-stacked 1911s as 2011s, when there’s a distinctive difference.
Anyways, here are two videos: one of the 5″ Duty DS and the other of the 4.25″ Carry DS.
UPDATE (2/8/2024): I’ve removed the YouTube videos from this post, as the publisher marked them as private. It’s a bit annoying, because the publisher was Tisas.
I’ve been keeping a running tally of notes after visiting the range – keep in mind that I’ve not been to the range with this particular gun in quite a while (2022). Here’s the latest version of my notes:
UPDATE 1:
Range photos with detailed captions are at https://photos.app.goo.gl/yrLbWQNMmDjgJCzV8. Note: I’m not sure if Reddit will choke on Google’s URL shortener – I’ve had problems with it in the past.
I brought 2 Wilson Combat mags with me, the two that the gun came with, and 1 ACT mag from another 1911. The ACT mag choked the gun once, and I knew it would be problematic because it’s been acting up the last few range visits (ie, it wasn’t an ammo issue). I bought another WC mag from the range store – it will replace the ACT mag. I will keep the ACT mag in case I need to scavenge parts from it.
The B45R loved PMC Bronze 230-gr FMJ and I shot 50 rounds of it (this ammo always feels peppy). The other ammo I used was International 155-gr frangible ammo. That ammo is crappy but it never choked the B45R. My Metro Arms hates it. I also noticed slide slowdown (an indication of low powder charge) but only when shooting it out of the Metro Arms…I didn’t notice any of that with the B45R. I shot 100 rounds of the International ammo.
I bought some G10 grips to replace the cheap-feeling grips that came with the gun. They work very well, and I expected nothing less (all of my other 1911s are using G10s).
Issues:
The WC mags will sometimes hang up in the mag well. It seems that the magazine catch/release is blocking insertion. If I hammer up on the mag, it blasts past but smacks into the upper portion of the gun (that’s probably not a good thing). If I actuate the release button a tad, the mag is allowed past. I’m hoping this issue will go away. This only happens with the WC mags. I’ve three 7-round Mecgar mags on the way here and they should arrive tomorrow. I’ll see if those get hung up. UPDATE:Found someone else reporting the same issue here – replaced the OEM mag release with a WC mag release; tested both the WC mags and GI mags – both can now be inserted without issue.
This is more of a non-issue for me but has been an issue for some folks. The grip panel bushings have been said to be “off” and will not accept non-OEM screws. I had no problem using the screws provided to me by Coolhandgear.com to install their grips. I tried two sets of differing screws and had no issues.
I’m absolutely loving this gun. My target gun was a Springfield Armory but I had a very difficult time deciding exactly what I wanted and then had a difficult time finding them in stock. So, I did research and decided to try the SDS 1911s. This gun hits way above it’s weight…it is very much comparable to a Springfield Armory Garrison (but railed). The B45R was well under $500, but has a forged frame (what other non-GI 1911s are in this price range that offer both forged frames and slides?). I basically stole a great 1911. I also don’t have any issues buying foreign/Turkish guns. I’m a 10 year military combat veteran, so I’m as patriotic as any self-proclaimed patriot, and have probably sacrificed more. ALL of my 1911s are non-US and I’ve Caniks and Tristars as well, one being my CC gun. I’ve no problem with any non-US-made guns.
The plan is to maybe change/fit a silver barrel bushing but maybe in 6 months or so.
UPDATE 2:
I visited the range tonight and put more rounds through the 1911 – 169 rounds to be exact. 150 of that was PMC Bronze FMJ and 19 was Remington HTP 185-gr JHP. There’s now a total of 319 rounds through the gun.
One JHP failed to feed but the gun is very dirty now (haven’t cleaned it since the day I received it). As well, it choked when using one of the three GI mags I bought – the round was the first in the mag. No, 19 JHP rounds isn’t much but good JHP 45ACP ammo isn’t exactly cheap, so that’s going to have to suffice for now.
I decided to test it at 12 yards out. I usually don’t shoot at distances longer than 12 yards. The gun is accurate, even in my hands (although there were flyers).
The gun is tearing up my hand at the beavertail – still trying to determine how. I’m being pinched badly at the webbing of my hand where the two skin textures meet. I’ll use gloves the next range visit. UPDATE: I believe it is the back of the right-side (ambi) safety that is rubbing my hand raw. It isn’t sharp but isn’t rounded either…over long periods of time, it’s an issue. I may look into getting a one-sided safety.
I’ve a Wilson Combat magazine release on the way. That should fix mag insertion problem with the WC and GI mags. No longer an issue.
UPDATE 3:
I’ve shot 429 rounds from my SDS Imports DB45R 1911, thus far. Since I’ve been curious about it’s carry capabilities, I’ve been trying to shoot JHP from it, initially with mixed results.
I initially shot Remington HTP 185-gr JHP, which generated several failures to feed (FTFs).
Federal LE 185-gr JHP was used, as well (maybe 25 rounds), which also generated some FTFs.
International Cartridge Corporation’s (ICC) 45ACP 155-gr frangible hollow points were used. For the most part, these shot without issue. That ammo can be used as defense ammo.
I also fired 20 rounds of Underwood ($$$) 45ACP +P 230-gr JHP. 8 of the 20 rounds generated FTFs. I used Wilson Combat mags with this ammo. Since this ammo is expensive and since it generated so many FTFs, I will stop shooting that ammo through the DB45R. Once I suspect that the gun will shoot it without FTFs, I’ll test the ammo again.
Inceptor ARX 118-gr defense ammo (non-JHP) was used, using the WC mag. There were no FTFs.
I shot PMC Bronze 185-gr JHP (non-SD ammo), using the WC mag.. There were no FTFs.
Hornady Critical Defense 185-gr JHP was shot through the gun, using the WC mag.. There were no FTFs.
So, I now know that I can use the following ammo as viable ammo for self defense: ICC 155-gr FJHP Inceptor ARX 118-gr PMC Bronze 185-gr JHP Hornady Critical Defense 185-gr JHP
In my view, the ammo problems are more than likely due to projectile ogive dimensions as well as hollow point size. If it were an issue with the gun, ALL the JHP I tested would be generating FTFs. There are no specification standards on ogive or projectile dimensions in today’s ammo market, so it’s difficult to make a gun 100% reliably eat all mass-produced ammo, and 1911s aren’t Glocks, so….
I plan to continue to shoot the PMC Bronze JHP ammo as range ammo, to continue the break-in process of the DB45R 1911.
I’ve started my Christmas 2023 vacation this week. Several things are on my agenda as far as firearms are concerned.
I’ve to send my SAS II UL back to Bul Armory for them to fix an issue that I couldn’t resolve. The problem is that I can fire the gun without disengaging the grip safety. I did replace the trigger shoe with a flat shoe. That replacement required me to remove the over-travel screw, but I adjusted it properly. At least, I think I did. I’ve done the same to my other 1911s and none of the other guns are experiencing the issue. I don’t typically test to see if my 1911s will fire with the grip safety disengaged, so I don’t know why I tried it this time. BA sent me a shipping label so that I can send it back to them. I’ve boxed up the gun and will ship it out tomorrow. I’ve removed the optic and reinstalled the rear irons. I also included an empty mag (they asked for it to be sent with the gun). I’ve no idea how long they’ll have the gun and customer support is hit/miss as far as being good is concerned.
I haven’t shot my Tisas Duty in a while. Someone asked in r/1911 about extended reviews of the gun. I stated that no one has been posting about the gun, other than after one range visit of shooting. So, tomorrow, I plan to visit the range with the Tisas. I went to Cabelas and found some somewhat cheap ammo. I bought three boxes of 50 rounds each. The whole reason I stopped shooting it was because 45ACP was expensive at the time. I’ll bring an extra box from home (I’ve a box of Herters JHP too). I’ve some Underwood +P too, but that’s expensive, and after a while, it actually hurts to shoot it. The jarring is pretty ruthless, at 1200 FPS. The plan is to try to shoot all 200 rounds. I’ve to remember to bring all the different mags I have.
While the SAS II UL is out for repair, I’m carrying the Alpha Foxtrot S15. I’d checked to see if the S15 would fit in my Tenicor holster (when I’d first bough the gun), but I’d never actually worn the holster with that gun. It EASILY carries. While I knew the grip was thin, it’s easy to hide – much easier than the SAS II UL’s grip. What I’m not used to is it’s heft. It’s heavier – not by a lot, but it’s noticeable.
As soon as the SAS II UL gets returned to me, I probably should ask Alpha Foxtrot to look at that gun, as the ramp frame insert sometimes moves. Once that has been fixed, I’m probably going to find a reputable place that’ll make the gun optics-ready.
I’ll update you all on the status of the Bul Armory once it is returned to me.
He tells me, “don’t tell me it’s not the gun,” and to “stop that nonsense,” whatever that means.
I’d basically said that most folks having feed issues with the gun haven’t checked (nor care to check) to see if it’s them (the shooter) and not the gun itself. The very first thing folks should always do is to ensure that they’re not limp-wristing.
Suggesting that folks may be limp-wristing their guns almost always offends them, which is kinda wild. Folks act as if they are infallible? Why? The typical reasons folks get offended is because they think that they’re masters of shooting after shooting X amount of years.
This particular commenter said that he doesn’t have issues shooting his micro-compacts. He mentioned that he has a P365 Macro, Hellcat and Shield Plus and doesn’t have feed issues. I told him that you can shoot one gun (or even several small guns) well and still have an issue with recoil management with another small gun, because they all have different grip textures and grip lengths, and each person’s hands on this Earth are going to differ. I also said that some guns are more sensitive to limp-wristing than others, too. Some guns will flat-out not tolerate limp-wristing.
This guy also didn’t say how many rounds he’d shot through his SAS II UL, nor how many mags he had. He didn’t say what ammo he was shooting through it, either. There are MANY variables that can contribute to feeding issues, but limp-wristing is the big one.
Factoring out limp-wristing, the next thing to troubleshoot would be the magazines. I’ve four magazines. I’ve NO feed issues whatsoever. I’ve shot a shitload of different types of ammo through the gun, but I’ve not had any misfeed trends.
The commenter could actually be experiencing an issue with both mags (I’m assuming he has two since he stated he’d just bought the gun two weeks prior), but, as I already stated, he didn’t supply any other data – he mostly gave me salt. I also asked him to supply a video so that everyone could see it. That was ignored. He also left a second separate comment saying that Bul Armory is paying me to say what I did, which is stupid. I used straight-up logic to explain it all (and I explain the logic below)…it’s not something that Bul Armory needs to tell anyone. If someone shoots the gun that you’re complaining won’t feed properly and they can’t generate those same misfeeds, logic dictates that you may be the issue.
There’s been numerous Reddit posts showing videos of Bul Armory gunsmiths shooting guns that were returned to them and the guns not having issues. I’ve seen some videos where guns go through a full magazine without feed issues. I’ve seen videos where guns go through two mags without feed issues. The gunsmiths use the customer’s mags when shooting, as well. The gunsmiths send the guns back to the owners and the owners shoot the guns, generating feed issues. In all cases, the gunsmiths send the ammo they were using back to the customer, so when the customer tests, they’re using the same ammo as the gunsmiths were. This tells me that there could be an issue with limp-wristing, especially if the gunsmith can’t replicate the misfeeds.
The gun is small – it is closer to 3″ than 3.25″. It is light. It’s a known fact that Officer-sized 1911s tend to have more issues than larger-sized 1911s. The gun could be faulty, yes, BUT I believe shooters should always try to ensure that they are not generating the issues.
I explained in my video that I’d run into a similar problem with a particular 1911 and was about to sell the gun. I kept thinking that the issue could be me – there was like a very small percentage of doubt that I was causing the issue, so I started forcing myself to troubleshoot both the gun and myself. I shot a lot of ammo through the gun, even when it was failing to feed. The gun didn’t have a ton of ammo shot through it, so I didn’t think it needed another recoil spring, but I ordered a new one anyways. I bought new grip panels, too. The misfeeds lessened but didn’t stop. I then decided to wear a helmet camera and record one hour of range shooting. When I got home and checked the footage, I was shocked. I was very loosely controlling the gun and it was plainly viewable. The next time I visited, I focused on my grip discipline and I didn’t have a single misfeed.
In my opinion, if you’re not humbly checking yourself, you’re setting yourself up for problems. I don’t have an issue letting folks know that when they have feeding issues, the shooter could be the issue.
So, I’m done with my gun purchases this year. I’m quite happy with my recent purchases.
What’s for next year’s gun buy?
I’m looking at the Costaint COS21, which is a semi-custom 2011. It starts at $2200, comes with 2 x 17-round mags, and is optics-ready
I’m also considering the Stealth Arms Platypus – I’m aware that this isn’t a true 2011, but more of a double-stacked 1911 that uses Glock mags. I’ve spec’d one out at $1535 with all the options I want. Not sure if it comes with mags, though, but I can certainly order them without issue and it won’t break the bank!
I’ve also been looking at Alpha Foxtrot’s single stacked 1911s, Fusion Firearms’ single stacked 1911s, and Bul Armory’s single stacked 1911s. No, I don’t need a Dan Wesson. I’d be happy with one, but I’d also be happy with any of the aforementioned 1911s.
Whatever I’ll buy next will be almost certainly a 2011 or 1911, though.
Someone asked me on Reddit, “Why not a Staccato?” I’ve no interested in a Staccato at all. Why? Everyone has one. It’s is THE gateway 2011. I don’t necessarily want what everyone else has. The Staccato is $1000 more than my most expensive handgun (the Bull Armory SAS II UL), but I’m that guy that believes in diminishing returns.
A Staccato C2 is $2000. A Staccato P is $2199. A Staccato CS (probably what I’d want and is very equivalent to the SAS II UL) is $2499, which is $1000 more than the cost of a SAS II UL but I’m not getting double the value of a SAS II UL.
I get that the Staccatos have no MIM and that they’re built in the US. I’m not afraid of MIM – most good gun makers that use MIM have never had issues with dependability of those MIM parts. I’m also not afraid of buying high end items from foreign companies.
Staccato mags are expensive at approximately $70…that’s $20 more than the SAS II UL mags, which I thought were expensive AF but still bought 2 of them. The saving grace is that each Staccato comes with 3 mags.
Staccato optic plates are REALLY expensive, at $160 for the 507K optics kit (they don’t include them with the gun as a package deal, either).
Why would I pay $2500 for a Staccato CS and then want to also spend another $300 on optics mounting gear and two extra mags? That’s close to $3000 at that point.
Basically, I don’t have a problem not owning a Staccato while owning Bul Armory 2011s. I’m not a brand snob and a non-Staccato will suffice, while I’m absolutely sure that I’ll shoot a non-Staccato as well as I would a Staccato.
I’m not sure why I haven’t posted about this yet, but a few months ago (Jan/Feb timeframe) I was cleaning my RIA Rock Ultra MS and noticed that the front sight was very loose. I’m not sure what occurred to loosen it, but I’d been carrying that particular gun for a while and hadn’t noticed that issue until it happened.
I was carrying that handgun in a Tenicor kydex holster, but the kydex doesn’t touch the front sight. I do remember dropping the gun once, on a carpeted floor. I’m thinking that might have been enough to dislodge the front sight. I can’t remember how the gun landed, but if it landed on the front sight, that would explain why the sight was loose.
The front sight was loose enough to where it slid all the way out of the dovetail with very little effort. Not only that, but the dovetail edge was surgically sharp and sliced my finger badly (had an issue stopping the bleeding).
When I cleaned the slide of blood, I saw that it looked as if the only thing that kept the sight in place was red threadlocker. I could see old threadlocker on the bottom of the sight and in the dovetail. I’m almost certain RIA didn’t fit this sight to the dovetail, otherwise I wouldn’t have been able to slide it back on and off the slide.
I’ve ordered another sight (from Armscor) but do not have the tools needed to perform an installation (I’ve no vise, I’ve no files, I’ve no sight pusher).
I can either order the needed tools or give the slide and sight to a local gunsmith so that they can install it.
After I had the issue, I couldn’t carry the gun, but I ended up installing the 9mm barrel to my 22TCM RIA Tac Ultra so that I could carry that gun instead. That gun also fit in the Tenicor Certum holster.
Nice trigger – not laterally loose and has no creep.
Trigger does have some vertical play
Has great finish
Has very nice control surfaces
Front and rear strap checkering is very aggressive, which offers great controllability.
Has great shooting traits
For me, it offers low recoil impulse
Slide is heavier than my SAS II UL, which soaks up recoil
Sights are OK – not the best but can be worse
Even with irons, I can shoot this gun just as well as the SAS II UL
I was shooting 7 and 10 yard groups just as well with this gun as the SAS II UL.
Caveat – my SAS II UL has an optic, so I’m not going to be able to match it’s quick follow-on shots, especially at distance.
Cons of the S15
$1500 guns need to have at LEAST two mags
WTF – the cost of a second Shield Arms mag is a drop in the bucket
Fat beavertail is somewhat uncomfortable – it is very wide at the top, which isn’t the norm for 1911s/2011s
I hear that the beavertail on the previous version was wider than how it is now
Apparently this was a common complaint, so Alpha Foxtrot made an effort to lessen the width of this area.
It is still wide and can be problematic for some folks.
If you normally shoot a 1911 with the thumb of your strong side hand over the thumb safety, you might have an issue with the beavertail beating up the knuckle bone at the base of your thumb
I noticed that this may be an issue and also noticed that the thumb safety is super-stiff in actuation, so I shot the S15 without having a thumb over the safety – I had no issues with recoil making it back to that knuckle.
I ran into an issue when field stripping the gun after I picked it up from the FFL. I field stripped it once without issue. The second time I field stripped it, I cleaned it, lubed it, and then attempted to put the gun back together. I couldn’t. This is my 6th 1911/2011, so I’m aware of how to take down these guns and put them back together, but I was having issues getting the takedown pin back into the hole. The pin wouldn’t go into the hole of the frame. I tried it after putting the side and barrel aside – it wouldn’t go in. I noticed that the front rail module slides into the frame and saw that it was out of alignment with the frame – I had to use a screwdriver to lever it back into alignment. After doing that, I tried putting the takedown pin into the hole and it slid in. I then tried to do it with the slide and barrel and failed – the rail module had moved again, so I again used a screwdriver to push it back into alignment with the frame. I tried again to put the gun back together and was successful, but that is a concern for an out-of-the-box $1500 gun.
I’ll be reaching out to Alpha Foxtrot about that soon. Even with that issue, the gun still shot 150 rounds without a problem, but I don’t want to have to deal with this issue every time I have to clean the gun.
Comparison to the SAS II UL
Fitment and finisih
Between the two handguns, the AF has slightly better fitment
The AF has far better finish
DLC coating has that $$money$$ feel
Grip
Grip feels (and is) smaller on the AF
Grip texturing and checkering is MUCH better on the AF
Sights
While I’ve moved to an optic on the SAS II, I did shoot it quite a bit with irons
Irons on the SAS II are better
They can be adjusted for windage as well as elevation; the AF sights can only be drifted for windage (but have elevation adjustability)
Shooting
This is a tough one
SAS II UL:
For me, the SAS II UL talks a bit (not large) effort and/or some training to get used to it’s lightness. It might feel snappy to folks that are used to heavy 1911s. For how light and short it is, it should be much snappier than it is. What snap it has can be easily managed.
Grip – the immediate impression for me was that the SAS II UL’s grip was not grippy. I thought it would be a problem, but it’s not (I shoot indoors, so I’m not sure if sweaty hands will compromise grip with this gun.
The trigger on the SAS II is light, and may be too light for some folks to carry. I don’t consider it a HUGE issue but I DID have two instances of premature detonation when at the range. The first time it occurred was during the first range visit. I’ve been trying to train with the gun to get used to it’s trigger, but at the last (and 4th) range visit, it happened again.
I may consider getting a sear spring adjustment done on this gun.
AF S15:
In my hands, I shot the S15 better than I did the SAS II (when considering both first range visits).
Grip – I immediately noticed the checkering of the front strap of the grip and thought that this is going to give me an edge, and it did. The gun doesn’t move in my hand at all. The SAS II moves in my hand and I’ve to constantly re-adjust my grip to short it up.
Trigger – the trigger on the S15 is a bit heavier but probably better for carrying. The trigger has no creep, which probably helps with accuracy, but it’s actually noticeably heavier than the SAS II’s trigger – that’s just an observation, though, not a con.
They both shoot VERY well but are different in ways that require a decent amount of elaboration — there’s no quick way to discuss the differences.
I’m happy with carrying the SAS II for now, but that might change as get more trigger time wit the S15.
