Category: CLP

Categories
battery CLP failure Grand Power lubrication MAC Military Arms Channel P1

Grand Power P1 & Military Arms Channel

Military Arms Channel (MAC) has reviewed the Grand Power P1. 

The review is here:

I find it interesting that he’s experiencing the same issues that I have with my P11 — failures to return to battery.  He was pretty put-off by that, which is understandable.  What’s weird is that some people experience the issue while others do not.  I know the gun does not like being extremely dirty (it doesn’t take a lot of rounds before it’s deemed dirty, either).  The gun also likes to be wet with lube, which probably isn’t going to help with carbon…it makes for a pasty mix.

He’s also the first major reviewer I’ve ever seen that has experienced such issues.  Or maybe he’s the first that’s bold enough to report about it.  In the past, I’ve stated that I find it weird that no reviewers have ever had negative comments about this gun.  That’s the main reason I did so many videos of the gun…because I felt people were possibly hiding negative experiences of the Grand Power handgun platforms.

One thing that MAC should do is not use CLP.  That’s what I was initially using and it is not enough, as it moves around and will eventually evaporate.  Apparently grease is a no-go as well, as Dave Copping joined in offering guidance to MAC in that video’s comments section (Dave Copping works for Eagle Imports).  He needs a heavy oil — heavy oil will migrate less. I used oil (synthetic motor oil) the last time I took the P11 to the range…I still had FRTBs, although I shot 150 rounds of Wolf, which probably counteracted the motor oil.  As a reminder, Wolf generates a LOT of carbon.

It seems that the only way around the FRTBs would be to do a field strip of the weapon at the range to wipe it down enough to lessen the FRTBs so that the range session could continue.  Or use a clean-burning ammo (depending on the ammo, that could be expensive).

MAC also wants to apply the MAC reliability test to his P1 (it consists of dunking the gun in water, sand, and mud, firing a mag in between each medium).  That gun is going to fail that test.  It’s not that type of gun.  It’s a very tight gun, tolerance-wise…such guns are not typically reliable when it comes to being subjected to such tests.  I left a comment stating that the gun will probably fail the test.  I’m not sure if he’s going to submit it to the test anyways, but I seriously doubt it’ll pass.

Categories
124-grain 147-grain American Eagle Breakfree CLP DA/SA failure to return to battery flat-nosed FRTB Geco Grand Power grease Hogue oil P11 Mk12 P220 Remington Sig Sauer TW25B UMC

More Grand Power Testing

I’ve been getting an influx of comments on my last Grand Power YouTube video.

Many people think that I need to be using oil (one person stated to not use TW25B and another recommended to use oil and not grease).

I tested the theory that I was using the wrong lube.  I stripped off the TW25B from the helical cut and breech area of the barrel and used a light coat of Breakfree CLP instead…I kept grease on the rails, though.

Remember, on my last visit, I fired 263 rounds of various ammo (50 x Tula steel-cased, 200 x Remington UMC 147-grain flat-nosed FMJ, and approx 24 rounds of Winchester Personal Protection JHP).  Of that ammo, I had two failures to return to battery (down from “many” failures), both of them being with the Remington ammo.

At last night’s range session, I used 100 x Remington UMC 147-grain flat-nosed FMJ, 50 x American Eagle 124-grain FMJ, and 28 rounds (of a box of 50) of Geco 124-grain FMJ, for a total of 177 rounds.  I had five failures to return to battery (FRTB).  The first happened on the 3rd magazine.  Then the 4th, 5th, and 6th magazines.  The gun wasn’t dirty, but remember, I was using a thin coat of oil vs a coat of gun grease.

Yeah, so much for that theory.  I had less failures during my previous range visit with the P11, and shot maybe 100 rounds more, too (with Tula being 100 of that, and both Remington UMC and Tula are very dirty).

But here’s a revelation…of the five failures to return to battery and of the 177 rounds, guess which brand failed the most in this gun?  Remington.  All five failures were with the Remington.  I made a point of paying attention to which brand I was shooting and keeping notes on each box’s tabs.  I also ejected each round that generated a FRTB.  In one case of FRTB, I found that the front lip of the case had bent when the gun tried to ram the round into the chamber.  I decided not to fire that round.

Here’s a picture:

If it’s difficult to see the damage, here’s a video.

So, maybe it’s a combination of the oil I used as lube and the ammo?  No, I think the ammo is the issue, as I shot 75 rounds of ammo AFTER the Remington that didn’t get hung up at all.

This gun does NOT like the Remington ammo I’m shooting.  I’ve other Remington ammo (non-flat-nosed and 115-grain FMJ) that I can test but I really don’t think I need to test any more.

I cleaned the gun and looked at it’s internals last night.  The claim that the oil is easier to clean after a range session is false.  The oil migrated to the slide and coated the whole underside of it.  In fact, it was everywhere and I didn’t use a lot…just a thin film.  It took quite awhile to clean.  The gun wasn’t quite that bad when I used grease as the primary lubricant.  The oil collected the carbon exactly as the grease did (it basically made mud), but I can’t contribute the failures to the oil.  All I know is that I had less failures with the grease but if the ammo is the problem then all perceived lube problems are exonerated.

I’ll post the video once I’ve edited it and posted it to YouTube.

UPDATE — here’s the video:

For now, I’ll continue to use the CLP as the primary lube.  I’ve even put it on the slide and frame rails.  I’ll watch for wear and/or trouble for awhile.

I also took my SIG Sauer P220 and gave it a quick run to test the new Hogue rubber grips.  Man, that gun is a beast.  Recoil is less of an issue with these grips.  I’m able to put ammo (half the mag, in this case) in the red, too.

All DA shots, first 8 rounds, at 7 yards

I fired a total of 44 rounds (I had five mags that have been loaded since Jan 2015 that I wanted to shoot…Perfecta hardball in 230-grain).  The gun ate it all up without issue.  My aiming did get progressively worse, though.  I might need to get glasses I can use at the range (or it might be time to have my eyes checked again), as I was having a difficult time seeing the front sight and my vision got worse as I shot.

I brought the Glock 19 and intended to shoot it, but got too engrossed with the P11 (let’s face it…as my EDC and with my recent issues, it needed the attention).

So, this range visit was very valuable for me, as I learned that not all ammo is created equal.  I still have a lot of Remington flat-nosed ammo left (I bought 500 rounds of it).  Some of my other guns will eat it without issue, so I’ll use it up, but I won’t be buying any more of it.

Grand Power P11 testing – accurate as hell!