web analytics
Categories
failure to return to battery Gallery of Guns Grand Power lubrication MAC P11

A Revisit – Grand Power P11

I’d not visited the range since June 2017 so I packed up a bag yesterday evening and took the Grand Power P11, just to see if the gun would fare any better with the fails to return to battery.  As well, someone on Youtube mentioned that I was riding the slide.  I’ll admit that I took personal offense to that, because I know for a fact that I’m not riding the slide on any gun, much less the P11 (if I were, I would be having issues with more than just the P11).  And, another very well known Youtuber has been having the exact same issues (that would be MAC – Military Arms Channel) with his P1.

I bought ammo at the range, 100 rounds of American Eagle 115-gr FMJ.  I’ve ammo at home but wanted to try ammo that I know most of my guns will run without issue.  I don’t think I’ve ever had any issues with American Eagle in any of my firearms.

I ensured the P11 was lubed before I left home.  It has been clean and unfired since May 2017.  The lube I used is Motul 5w20.  It’s a tad heavy, but I also used a fine coat of CLP on the typical places where the P11 needs lube.

The handgun ate all the rounds without failing to return to battery…all but one.  It failed on round 94.  I was disappointed.  100 rounds isn’t much…it couldn’t get through 100 rounds without failing.

Another Youtuber insists that I call Eagle Imports and have them look into the issue.  I may do that but I may just call Gallery of Guns (that’s where I bought it from…they’ve lifetime guarantees of their firearms).  Whichever will be the path of least resistance will be good.

The range visit made me miss carrying the P11.  It is and has always been accurate and comfortable in my hands.  I miss carrying it, but I just can’t stand the failures to return to battery.

I’ll open it up later today to see how dirty the gun is.  I’m sure I’ll see a ton of carbon (even with me using just a bit of oil) where the barrel rides in the frame…that’s the only place that can get dirty enough to cause battery issues.  It makes me wonder if I should stop putting lube in that location.

UPDATE:

 Here are pictures of the dirty areas of the gun.  There is carbon that has coated the oil and it was causing friction that is preventing the barrel from rotating properly, which is causing the failures to return to battery.  If CLP doesn’t work, or even regular 5w20 motor oil, WTF is going to be good enough to prevent this sort of thing?  Maybe something IS out of spec…

Categories
124-grain 147-grain American Eagle Breakfree CLP DA/SA failure to return to battery flat-nosed FRTB Geco Grand Power grease Hogue oil P11 Mk12 P220 Remington Sig Sauer TW25B UMC

More Grand Power Testing

I’ve been getting an influx of comments on my last Grand Power YouTube video.

Many people think that I need to be using oil (one person stated to not use TW25B and another recommended to use oil and not grease).

I tested the theory that I was using the wrong lube.  I stripped off the TW25B from the helical cut and breech area of the barrel and used a light coat of Breakfree CLP instead…I kept grease on the rails, though.

Remember, on my last visit, I fired 263 rounds of various ammo (50 x Tula steel-cased, 200 x Remington UMC 147-grain flat-nosed FMJ, and approx 24 rounds of Winchester Personal Protection JHP).  Of that ammo, I had two failures to return to battery (down from “many” failures), both of them being with the Remington ammo.

At last night’s range session, I used 100 x Remington UMC 147-grain flat-nosed FMJ, 50 x American Eagle 124-grain FMJ, and 28 rounds (of a box of 50) of Geco 124-grain FMJ, for a total of 177 rounds.  I had five failures to return to battery (FRTB).  The first happened on the 3rd magazine.  Then the 4th, 5th, and 6th magazines.  The gun wasn’t dirty, but remember, I was using a thin coat of oil vs a coat of gun grease.

Yeah, so much for that theory.  I had less failures during my previous range visit with the P11, and shot maybe 100 rounds more, too (with Tula being 100 of that, and both Remington UMC and Tula are very dirty).

But here’s a revelation…of the five failures to return to battery and of the 177 rounds, guess which brand failed the most in this gun?  Remington.  All five failures were with the Remington.  I made a point of paying attention to which brand I was shooting and keeping notes on each box’s tabs.  I also ejected each round that generated a FRTB.  In one case of FRTB, I found that the front lip of the case had bent when the gun tried to ram the round into the chamber.  I decided not to fire that round.

Here’s a picture:

If it’s difficult to see the damage, here’s a video.

So, maybe it’s a combination of the oil I used as lube and the ammo?  No, I think the ammo is the issue, as I shot 75 rounds of ammo AFTER the Remington that didn’t get hung up at all.

This gun does NOT like the Remington ammo I’m shooting.  I’ve other Remington ammo (non-flat-nosed and 115-grain FMJ) that I can test but I really don’t think I need to test any more.

I cleaned the gun and looked at it’s internals last night.  The claim that the oil is easier to clean after a range session is false.  The oil migrated to the slide and coated the whole underside of it.  In fact, it was everywhere and I didn’t use a lot…just a thin film.  It took quite awhile to clean.  The gun wasn’t quite that bad when I used grease as the primary lubricant.  The oil collected the carbon exactly as the grease did (it basically made mud), but I can’t contribute the failures to the oil.  All I know is that I had less failures with the grease but if the ammo is the problem then all perceived lube problems are exonerated.

I’ll post the video once I’ve edited it and posted it to YouTube.

UPDATE — here’s the video:

For now, I’ll continue to use the CLP as the primary lube.  I’ve even put it on the slide and frame rails.  I’ll watch for wear and/or trouble for awhile.

I also took my SIG Sauer P220 and gave it a quick run to test the new Hogue rubber grips.  Man, that gun is a beast.  Recoil is less of an issue with these grips.  I’m able to put ammo (half the mag, in this case) in the red, too.

All DA shots, first 8 rounds, at 7 yards

I fired a total of 44 rounds (I had five mags that have been loaded since Jan 2015 that I wanted to shoot…Perfecta hardball in 230-grain).  The gun ate it all up without issue.  My aiming did get progressively worse, though.  I might need to get glasses I can use at the range (or it might be time to have my eyes checked again), as I was having a difficult time seeing the front sight and my vision got worse as I shot.

I brought the Glock 19 and intended to shoot it, but got too engrossed with the P11 (let’s face it…as my EDC and with my recent issues, it needed the attention).

So, this range visit was very valuable for me, as I learned that not all ammo is created equal.  I still have a lot of Remington flat-nosed ammo left (I bought 500 rounds of it).  Some of my other guns will eat it without issue, so I’ll use it up, but I won’t be buying any more of it.

Grand Power P11 testing – accurate as hell!