It’s nice to see two very knowledgeable individuals who understand how good the Beretta PX4 Storm is!
If I weren’t on a 1911/2011 fixation, I’d probably be shooting this gun more!
Category: Beretta
Back in April, I bought and installed Hogue rubber slip-on grips for my Beretta PX4. That handgun is rather slick from the factory and no, I don’t have the Concealed Carry version of the PX4 and don’t really care for grip tape or Talon Grips.
The PX4 Compact is thick! I sometimes have problems ignoring the handgun when I’m carrying it (concealed). I didn’t really want to use a slip-on grip that would make it thicker, but I do like finger grooves, so I picked the grooved one. If I didn’t like it, I’d try to exchange it for a non-grooved one.
Installing it was a bit of a pain, as the grip doesn’t stretch well (which is good once it is installed). The grip makes the handgun feel EXCELLENT. The con is that it does make the gun feel thicker, but the grip is still not going to be in the waistband, so there’s that.
I was checking my handguns (I do this monthly to ensure there’s no rust and that they’ve a coating of oil) and came across my P11. The Grand Power P11 is a beautiful handgun, but one of the things I hate about it is that the grip is soooo damned slippery.
I’ve often thought of buying Talon Grips or grip tape that is rubberized, just so I could use it on this handgun’s grip. I’m not sure if Talon Grips would properly seal onto the grip, though, and grip tape can sometimes be a pain in the ass to get right. Grip tape was my last resort.
I’ve a Hogue slip-on grip on my Beretta PX4 Compact that I installed maybe 8 months ago (I talk about it here). It was also a pain in the ass to mount on that handgun but it’s solid and feels great in the hand. The rubberized texture feels natural and grippy.
I decided to try a set for the P11, but I searched to see if anyone else had documented online that they’d tried Hogue slip-ons on this handgun. I couldn’t find any data via Google that showed anyone trying this, so I didn’t know which set of slip-ons to try.
I went to Hogue’s website and looked at what they had. Each slip-on had documentation showing which gun they’d fit. I perused the Handall Jr. product’s documentation and saw that it would fit such guns as the Bersa Thunder .380 and the Ruger SR9C. Both of those have rather thin/slim girthed grips, so I thought that this one would best fit my P11. The plan was to order one and if it didn’t fit, to reorder the next size up.
The slip-on arrived today. At first I thought that it was too small. I had to fight to get it onto the grip, but, as with my PX4’s slip-on, I warmed it up a bit (with a hair dryer), which made the rubber a bit more pliable. I suppose I could’ve used water to “lube” the grip to the point that the slip-on would slide onto the grip. Regardless, it eventually fit onto the grip!
The grip feels MUCH better now. I feel much more confident with it in my hand now. Prior to that, it always felt like the handgun might slip from my hands. It also looks rather nice on the handgun…looks different and not so much out of place.
I plan to take it to the range to see if it enhances shooting.
I should’ve done this a LONG time ago.
Categories
Range Visit
I went to the range today and brought the Grand Power P11, the RIA 22TCM, and of course I bought my current carry gun, the Bersa Thunder Plus (I’m carrying the PX4 less now, since it is so thick…it’s lumpier and I don’t like that it feels so large on my hip). I couldn’t use my RIA, though, because I forgot to bring it’s magazine.
I brought 200 rounds of Wolf 115-grain FMJ for the P11. I fired 150 rounds of it. I bought 50 rounds of Speer Lawman 95-grain FMJ at the range for the Bersa. I fired all of that.
I started out with the P11. I ensured it was lubed properly (using synthetic motor oil – 5w20 Motul) beforehand. It failed to return to battery once in that first magazine. It did it again on the 6th magazine (12-round mags). Then I did twice more through the last two mags. It probably was pretty dirty with firing Wolf ammo after 138 rounds, so that’s probably why it was failing. Wolf is REALLY dirty and covered in some type of semi-sticky coating…not exactly conducive to the inner workings of a gun with tight tolerances.
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That Speer Lawman ammo for the .380…it was stinging my hand. I’ll have to avoid that ammo in the future. It seems I’m going to need to develop a listing of “to avoid” ammo for this particular handgun.
So, I’m now at a round count of 1269 for the P11 and 373 for the Bersa. I’m not sure if I’ll ever get rid of the fails to return to battery with the P11. I wanted to give the gun a fair shake by trying a thicker lube, but maybe using Wolf negated the usage of thicker oil (oil that’ll stay put instead of migrating). There’s always something with the P11…too many excuses being used to explain these issues. :/ The Bersa is still cool to shoot. The trigger is smoothing out. I’m still not as accurate with it as with the P11 or PX4, though…and it’s trigger isn’t all that spectacular when compared to those aforementioned handguns, too. But it’s definitely utilitarian. The only thing about this gun that I really hate is it’s recoil sting with certain ammo.
I’ll continue to shoot both guns, although I probably need to put more rounds through the PX4.
Last night, I installed the stealth decocker levers I got from Brignoliarmi.com. The package also came with one slide lever. I’ve opted to not change that…not sure what such a change entails but it has to be easier to install than the decocking levers were. As well, I do believe Brownells sells a plug for the right side of the gun that will have a hole where the lever would’ve been (after I swap out the old part for the new). I’m thinking on ordering that part. Anything to slim down the the profile of the PX4.
Some pics:
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| Before the lever swap |
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| After the lever swap |
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| The packaging |
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| Backside of the packaging |
They were somewhat difficult to install. I’ve not done such a thing before. Well, let me restate that. I’ve never removed roll pins from guns that didn’t involve changing out backstraps. This wasn’t a simple backstrap change. It wasn’t super complicated, either. I used Mrgunsngear’s video to assist me in changing the parts. (Note: you do not have to remove the extractor to change out the safety levers.) The most difficult part was in getting the roll pin out. Getting it back in was easy. Another thing that stumped me was the spring…I didn’t reinstall it correctly and had to remove the roll pin again, then reinstall the spring correctly, and THEN reinstall the roll pin AGAIN.
I also might need a new punch, as the punch that I bought from Lowes was beat the hell up after the swap (bent at the tip).
Note that this does change the mode of operation for this particular gun. It was sold to me as an F Type. It is now a G Type (the new parts are labeled as G Type and the gun now functions a a G Type). Prior to the parts change, the gun’s levers functioned as both a safety and decocker (they were not dedicated to either function). The levers now function solely to decock. They will NOT safety the trigger, and the lever now springs back into place after the gun has been decocked. For me, it is easier to train with DA as a first shot than it is to train to carry cocked and locked (meaning that I’ve to ensure the safety is off before I pull the trigger, and also always ensure the safety is engaged when it’s holstered).
The gun does look cleaner, profile-wise. It also carries somewhat better, as the new levers are no longer pushing on the material of the N82 Professional holster. Still, the gun is thick.
No amount of parts replacement will change the fact that the slide is over an inch thick. This is the ONLY negative of this firearm. I’ll have to grow used to it.
The gun is definitely easier to rack with the new levers. But the gun is also difficult to decock because the new levers have less traction…it almost makes me miss the old levers.
UPDATE: The stealth slide lever is in. I installed it a few hours after I posted the above. Not sure if I like the hole that was left after removing the right side old lever. Also not sure why Beretta didn’t make replacements for both sides. (There’s only one replacement…the left side…the old right-sided lever has to come out to get the left-sided stealth one installed.)
UPDATE #2: I ordered the slide catch plug at Midwest Gunworks. The part arrived quicker than I’d anticipated. I had issues understanding how to install it. I went to a Beretta forum (berettaforum.net) to ask how PX4 owners have been installing the part. Apparently you’ve to push down and turn so that the plug locks in, only this is difficult to do. A forum user stated he’d used rubber from some gun grips to get traction on the plug without damaging it…I had a some Hogue grips and used them to turn the plug and it worked. Here’s a picture of how the gun now looks with the plug installed —
Categories
Swapped Out My EDC!
So, I went to the range yesterday and still had issues with the Grand Power.
Well, to be honest, it was the ammo…the gun didn’t like the ammo. How do I know this? Because the PX4 had the same issue with the exact same ammo. Both guns exhibited the same problem and both had the same problem on the first round of ammo.
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The ammo I was using was Winchester White Box 124-grain FMJ. I’ve shot WWB from this gun many times, but this is the first time I’ve shot WWB 124-grain from it.
Now, it’s the fault of the ammo, BUT the PX4 had no problems after the first round choked it…it shot the rest without issue. The P11 had to be cleared or had to have it’s slide smacked multiple times.
The P11 was cleaned and lubed well, so the problem isn’t because it was dirty or needed lube. It was due to the gun being tight. It’s a pro of the brand but in this case, it is also a con. This is not the first time I’ve had to deal with the gun being plagued by out-of-spec ammo…it ruins a range session, especially if it’s my carry gun and I’m trying to polish my trigger skills. If I’m spending more time clearing the gun than shooting it, that’s not fun nor does it give me confidence in the gun. Now, I know this is practice ammo and I know that self defense ammo will not have such issues (far less likely than practice ammo, at least), but I can’t practice with SD ammo. Well, I could, but that would NOT be cost effective.
I’m tired of dealing with the P11’s fickleness. It is now retired from EDC duty. I retired it early out of frustration.
I still need a good holster, though. Right now I’m using one of my Alien Gear Cloak Tuck 3.0 holsters with a PX4 compact shell. It works well, but I want something that I can easily take off and put back on, so I ordered one of N82 Tactical’s Professional series holsters.
I also ordered 3 more magazines. The mags are generally expensive (but cheaper than the $50 that P11 mags cost). Beretta sells them for $40. After searching far and wide, I found that Ammo Depot had them for $22 each! The next cheapest was $33 at Tombstone Tactical.
I went to the range with the owner of a business that I’m transferring over to. I brought my own ammo but he insisted that we use his…he brought a small ammo can of Tula ammo. I shot about five mags of that from my gun. It didn’t choke at all (and the P11 didn’t choke on it either when I shot Tula from it awhile back). I was impressed with that ammo, so when I got home, I ordered 1000 rounds of Wolf from Ammo Depot. The link shows a case of 500. I ordered two of them.
I also traded guns with my new boss (he brought a Springfield XDM, the 4″ model). He shot well enough with my gun but he didn’t shoot it like he did his XDM. He said he loved the heft of the Storm. Now, I loved his gun. I haven’t shot striker-fired in awhile (I’ve several of them). I thought I would have issues with the trigger. Nope. My grouping was tight. It was just as tight as when I shoot my DA/SA guns. I might have to look into that gun. The trigger was better than what’s in my XD Mod 2.
Oh, and I also got a notice that a store now has a medium P320 subcompact grip module in stock, so I ordered that, especially since those are difficult to come by.
Lastly, I ordered stealth levers for the PX4 Storm. I ordered both the stealth safety/decocker levers and the slide catch levers. Those should arrive soon (it’s coming from a shop in Italy…I ordered from them since Beretta USA didn’t have those parts in stock). Once it arrives, I’ll convert to the G-type.
So, this next few weeks will be fun. I’ve more info to share about a recent range visit, but I’ll do that in a different blog entry (it involves the Bersa Thunder).
It arrived yesterday.
I do have a tabletop video here:
I took it and the Grand Power P11 to the range this evening. All I can say is, wow…
Pluses for the gun:
- It shoots almost as well as the P11.
- DA trigger is better.
- Shot 105 round of Magtech 115-gr FMJ and Browing BPT 147-grain ammo with only one round having an issue (light strike). It loves 147-grain.
- It’s sights are easier to work with than the P11’s.
Minuses for the gun:
- Backstraps are extremely difficult to work with…well, not the backstraps themselves but the backstrap retention mechanism. I struggled with it when swapping backstraps.
- Large backstrap is slightly warped (out of the box).
- The red paint that’s on the extractor (acting like a loaded chamber indicator) looks to have come off.
- Plastic guide rod.
How does the PX4 compare to the P11?
- The gun is only slightly larger than the P11.
- The P11’s mag holds 12 rounds. The PX4’s mag holds 15. This isn’t a huge deal, though…the P11 is sold as a sub-compact.
- The takedown of the PX4 is easy. The takedown of the P11, while not exactly orthodox, is easy enough once you’ve done it a few times.
- The P11 is extremely finnicky about ammo. The PX4 doesn’t appear to be as finnicky.
- The P11 needs to be run wet. I’m assuming the PX4 needs to be run wet as well…they both have rotating barrels.
- The P11 won’t tolerate being dirty (lots of carbon will accumulate where the barrel rotates on the frame). I believe it is more of a competition gun that just so happens to carry well. The PX4 doesn’t appear to be as fussy when it comes to being dirty.
- The PX4’s controls are not conducive to carry duty, in my opinion…both the safety/decocker levers and the slide catch levers are too big and stick out well beyond the sides of the handgun. Luckily, there are OEM “stealth” levers that make the gun feel a tad bit slimmer (and less “snaggy”).
- While the PX4’s sights are better than the P11’s the P11’s sights are purposely small. This means that while they’re more difficult to use, they’re more accurate when used properly. Still, I wouldn’t mind getting some night sights on the PX4.
Once I get “stealth” levers for the gun, I’ll begin to start carrying it around the house. I plan to get the N82 Tactical Professional holster to use with the PX4.
The particular gun is the F-type. I plan to convert it to the G-type. I will never use the safety and I’m used to decock-only guns (my P11 didn’t come with a decocker and I manually decock it…it comes with a safety but I never use it because it’s always in DA mode).
So, 105 rounds were shot through the gun tonight. Here’s the targets (shot from 7 yards with two types of ammo in two different weights and with two different noses).
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| These are the first 15 shots out of the gun. The one in the red is the first shot (DA). This is tighter than what I’m used to shooting from a new gun. The shots are more vertically-aligned than that I’ve shot with my other new guns. |
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| I started from left top to right top, left bottom to right bottom, then focused on the center target. The first two targets’ DA shots were very close to the red. The lower left, not so much. The lower right group was extremely tight (there are 3 holes). the center shot was a bit wide. |
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| All of these shots were DA mode. I’d shoot, then decock back to DA mode, then shoot, then decock, and so on. This is 15 rounds. All but 3 are in the red. Two of those are close. One is a flyer. |
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| The first grouping of 15 is at the red. The second grouping is at the head. At first, I was slowly shooting the red. At the head, I tried some double-taps (slow double-taps). Again, I’m vertically aligned but spread out…IMO, not bad for double-taps. Also, note that the second group would all be in the blue if I were aiming for the body. |
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| Similar to the target above this one, I shot two different magazines, one at the body and one at the head. I also did double-taps. The first shots of the magazines were DA shots and each landed center mass. The first grouping is vertically aligned. The second group is spread out…not sure if this was due to the ammo (was using the 147-grain BPT target ammo). |
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| This is the P11’s target. These were rushed (45 rounds, combination of the BPT ammo and the Magtech). I thought I’d be able to eat out the red from the target…nope. But that’s probably 35 shots that are very much center mass. I was shooting relatively fast and some are double-taps. This gun rewards the wielder when basic fundamentals are applied but punishes the wielder if those fundamentals aren’t applied. I’ve mixed results here…while the group is tight, I wanted them tighter. Because I rushed, the gun punished me. Remember what I said earlier about those small sights? It applies to my aiming and shooting at this target. |
All in all, this was a fun outing. I plan to take the gun out again tomorrow and maybe spend more than an hour with both of them this time. I may even take the Sig Pro to muddy up the comparison (since it is also a DA/SA polymer gun that I think I may carry).
Stay tuned!
UPDATE: I got impatient in waiting for Beretta to stock up. I did some research and found that there’s a store in Italy that sells both the stealth slide catch and stealth safety. The site is here. The part is here. I know I have the right part because I compared the part numbers between it and Beretta’s USA site…they are the same (part no. E00348). It costs 54,92 EU and 18 EU for shipping, for a total of 72,92 EU. It’s a few dollars less than if I ordered from Beretta USA, but as far as I know, this site has them in stock.
This was the most agonizing decision I’ve made in quite awhile.
My birthday is approaching and I wanted to buy something nice but not too expensive. I’d considered a Sig 1911 as my next nice gun, but my wife isn’t going to sign off on a $800 purchase…maybe on my 50th birthday next year.
My choices were the Grand Power P1 or the Beretta PX4 Storm Compact.
I chose the Storm and bought it through Whittaker Guns for $429.
Why was this a difficult decision? I’d need to talk about the Grand Power and why I was considering it (as well as the thing that I don’t like about the company).
The pros:
- As you well know, I currently conceal-carry a Grand Power P11 Mk12. This particular gun did not come with a decocker. New guns from Grand Power come with decockers and that includes the P1.
- I currently use a P1 kydex holster when I carry my P11, so if I bought a P1, I’d already have a holster.
- I currently use three P1 15-round mags with my P11 when I visit the range. If I bought a P1, which includes two magazines, I’d have five mags for this gun.
I basically already have all the gear to immediately start carrying a P1.
The con:
Grand Power stated in their forums that they will not sell the decocker parts to owners because they might be held liable if an owner did not install the part correctly and had an accidental (not negligent if there was an issue with the gun’s internals) discharge where someone was injured or killed.
Why do I have a problem with that? I’ll list the reasons:
- They sell 99% of the internals for all their guns on the Eagle Imports web site. Most of those parts could cause an accidental discharge if installed incorrectly, and those have nothing to do with the safety/decocker. Yet they’ve no problem selling those parts and letting owners install them on their own.
- Their competition sells such parts and let owners install those parts.
- The mentality that they’re going to save us from ourselves is very much a liberal thought. This is also what drives such “technology” as loaded chamber indicators and magazine disconnects and both of those are training band-aids.
- I don’t believe in any firearm being black-box-like (ie, don’t allow consumers to open the product). If they’re selling internal parts, how else do you get them into the firearm?
- In lieu of them providing you the decocker parts, they suggest you spend $500+ to get a new GP pistol that would already have a decocker. Nope. Not going to happen.
Some resources:
- http://www.grandpower.eu/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=342
- http://www.grandpower.eu/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=109&p=463&hilit=+decocker#p461
I was a stout advocate of the P11 and it’s manufacturer up until this point. In fact, a large part of my Youtube content relates to the P11 and my experiences with it. I think it’s time to move on.
The depressing part of this is that I’ve spend a large amount of my time and training with the P11, so I’ll have to get familiar with another one of my handguns to replace my P11 as my EDC gun. An option is to continue to carry it but I just can’t swallow Grand Power’s attitude that they’ll allow us to replace any part but a safety/decocker (hell, they sell replacement safeties on their parts site!).
Currently, my options to replace the P11, if I want to stay with DA/SA, is with my Sig SP2022 or this new Beretta that will be shipped to me sometime this week. I’m more ready to carry the SP2022 than I am the PX4 at this point in time. I’m just waiting for some replacement mag base plates and a SP2022 shell form my Alien Gear holster. I have 4 mags for the SP2022. I have not a damned thing for the Storm, although I can easily get a N82 Tactical holster from a local gun shop (those are nice).
I can also carry the Bersa Thunder Plus that I have, but I HATE it’s decocker! With a passion. I can carry that with the safety off, if need be, and it’s a smaller gun to carry. Although it’s a .380, it is double-stack and holds 15+1. I have four mags for it and just got an N82 Tactical IWB holster for it. I just need to test some carry ammo and begin practicing with it.
Either way, I’ll be testing the carrying of the SP2022 and PX4 Storm.
Before I carry the Storm, though, I’m looking to replace the safeties with the stealth versions. As well, I’ll convert it to decocker-only.
Here’s a listing of handguns that I plan to eventually obtain, in the following order, within 12-18 months:
- Canik TP9SA 9mm (in Desert Tan) – Bought
Canik TP9 v2 9mm (in OD Green)- Rock Island Armory 1911A1 MS Tactical 2011 .45ACP – Bought but in 9mm (specifically, I bought model number 51698)
Ruger SR1911 Commander Lightweight (IF I can find it at around $600)- American Classic 1911 Commander 45 ACP 4.25″ – Bought
- Sig Sauer P320C in 9mm – Bought
Sig Sauer P320SC in 9mm- Grand Power P11 Mk12 9mm – Bought
orBeretta PX4 Storm Compact in 9mm (either one, not both) - Glock 19 Gen 4 – Bought
- Springfield Armory XD Mod.2 SC 9mm – Bought
orFNS-9 Compact 9mm (either one, not both)
The Canik TP9 has been calling out to me for awhile now, especially the SA version. I’ve yet to see the v2 TP9 in online stores, but I’ve been eyeing a Desert Tan TP9SA the last few days, wondering if I should “pull the trigger” and buy it.
Why all the above? There’s a good possibility that I might be moving to California (no idea when, but I’d like to say within the next 12-18 months). I’d like to get as many guns on the above list as I can before we move, because once we’re there, I’ll be limited to CA’s notorious approved gun list — the list is a serious joke. I can bring what I already have into California without issue…I’ve no long guns, only handguns.
** UPDATE: I’ve decided against the Grand Power, as I do not want to have to limit any more magazines than I have to. The PX4 Storm Compact comes with 10-round mags, so I won’t have to alter them to meet CA standards. As well, extra mags for the GP P11 are $54! Also, we’re moving to CA THIS year…by August.
** UPDATE 2 (2/2/2015): I just ordered a Sig P320C in 9mm, a Metro Arms American Classic 1911 Commander 45ACP, and a RIA 1911A1 MS Tactical II in 9mm. They should arrive by the end of the week or early next week at the latest…we’ll see. I also revised the list again. I’ll stick with the Sig P320C (Compact, not Carry version)…I don’t need the P320SC since I can modify the P320C to be an SC model (the P320 is modular and can be converted to any other P320 model). That’s going to save some money and is more logical.
** UPDATE 3 (2/3/2015): I’ve removed the FNS-9 Compact from the list. I refuse to research further to try to find a solution to the issue. Instead of buying the gun and hoping this model will be compatible with other FNH compact models, I’m just going to not buy it…maybe this frees up a space for a different gun?